Seattle Solar Electricity Q&A
上周,我采访了西西雅图自然能源公司的Amy Beaudoin,这家公司位于西西雅图,是一家太阳能和风能安装公司。We talked about a bunch of questions that I had as well as questions submitted by readers on topics like:
- Things you can do to improve your home’s efficiency before considering solar power
- Cost-effectiveness of solar
- Average size of residential systems and cost
- Current incentives & rebates for installing solar electricity
- Financing options through loans
- When it makes sense to go for solar and appropriate system size
Listen to Podcast:
Download at iTunes:https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/podcast-seattle-homestead/id512293812?mt=2#
Resources Mentioned:
West Seattle Natural Energy:
- West Seattle Natural Energy Website(Also find them onFacebook&Twitter)
- WSNE Project Photo Gallery
- Here is the5.2 KW solar electric systemfeatured in the top photo of this post.
Washington State Solar Financing Resources:
The first two were mentioned in the podcast, but there are two more from Umpqua and PSCCU below that also offer green loans at decent rates:
- Generations Credit Union(Olympia, WA)
- 1st Security Bank of Washington(Branches throughout Puget Sound area)
- Greenstreet Lending from Umpqua Bank(Throughout Pacific Coast)
- Efficiency Loans from Puget Sound Cooperative Credit Union(Puget Sound area)
Transcript:
Kane:Okay – so I am here with Amy Beaudoin of West Seattle Natural Energy, and you can find their website atWestSeattleNaturalEnergy.com. And today we’re talking about solar electric installations, especially in the Seattle area, but around Washington as well. And so I’ve collected a bunch of questions from people onreddit.com/r/homesteadand theSeattle Homestead Facebook page, and we’re just going to go over some questions people have about solar installations and see what Amy has to say. So to start off, could you just give us an idea of how long West Seattle Natural Energy has been around and what type of jobs you guys are doing, that sort of thing?
Amy:我们已经经营了四年多一点,到目前为止,我们只安装了30多台太阳能设备。So we do mostly residential, a little bit of small commercial, and we do primarilysolar PV, but a little bit of solar hot water andsmall wind在正确的区域。
Kane:太好了。嗯,在我们讨论太阳能之前,我看到的最好的问题之一是,“在确定客户需要多少太阳能之前,你会给他们什么样的建议和建议来减少他们的能源使用和消耗?”
Amy:你能做的最大的事情是检查你的家是否绝缘——你的绝缘性能好吗——你的阁楼绝缘吗?如果你有地下室,你的地板隔热吗?你的壁板好吗?你们的窗户好吗?这些都是你在花很多钱之前可以先做的大事。更小的东西,你可以得到更好的电器,你知道,摆脱旧的,过时的。现在有很多优惠折扣。更换灯泡;节能灯很好,甚至是led灯——它们有很好的led灯——有点贵,但仍然可以节省电费。
确保你的门上有防风雨条,你的窗户上有防风雨条——诸如此类的小东西。不要让所有的东西都一直插着电源。电脑有节电功能。我不喜欢一直把电脑关机,所以我不会这么做。但是手机——像这样的东西不需要隔夜充电——它们可以充电两个小时。这些是我认为你能做的最大的事情。我的意思是,西雅图市有一些非常不错的回扣。斯诺霍米什县在外部天气和电器方面有很好的折扣,普吉特声音能源公司也有同样的折扣。
Kane:And if I’m correct, they do subsidized loans for those as well?
Amy:Some of them do – mostly Snohomish County. Seattle doesn’t have a great loan program, but they have a rebate program and free recycle, so that’s nice.
Kane:好的,很好。我之前忘记说了,我们现在是在一家咖啡店,所以你也会听到磨咖啡的声音。好吧,西雅图很多人关心的一个大问题是,我们到处都是高大的松树,有很多树荫。所以你多久去一次一个地方,可能不推荐专门用太阳能来做这些事情?
Amy:I would say about – not very often – maybe less than 10 percent. The nice thing about solar is you – if you are willing to be creative, there is generally something you can do. Perhaps we can put it on a garage versus your home roof. Perhaps we can build a porch cover or a patio cover in a sunnier area of your yard. It can be hard, especially in Seattle, because we have small lot sizes, but there’s usually something we can do, and sometimes it’s even as easy, if you’re willing, to do something like maybe limb a little bit – a few trees, because we can tell you exactly, by using our Solar Eye, which branches are gonna impede sunlight.
So if people are willing to – and we’re not gonna tell you to tear down your trees, obviously; that would be counterproductive – but there are some things you can do. And we are a small enough company that we like to be creative with that. Some of our installs that you can see on the website are different; they’re not just standard “slap it on your roof and go away” type deals. There’s some thought involved in it. So we find if people are willing to be creative and thing outside the box, we are, too. And there’s usually something we can do. We have been to places where they have 100-foot pine trees, and – sorry, not much you can do with that.
Kane:Sure, and I bet most of the people in that situation just assume it’s not an option and probably don’t call you out for consultation in the first place.
Amy:Most – most – but one thing to consider is that if – not necessarily here in the city with the lots we have, but if you have a small bit of property out in the county or other areas, there’s objects such as tracking systems, which go on trackers that follow the axis of the sun. Those can be put in a yard so even if your house is in the shade, perhaps you have a vegetable garden. What we like to tell people is if you have enough sun to grow vegetables – and not last year, because last year sucked – but generally, if you have enough sun to grow a vegetable garden – to have that – you have enough sun to have a solar system.
Kane:Okay – and is there a specific time of day that people should be – is afternoon sun, for example, going to be more valuable or midday?
Amy:In the summer, yes. In the summer, you wanna have an area that is unobstructed from about let’s say 9:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. until at least 5:00 p.m. to 6:00 p.m. at night. So you need that window, full day sun in the summer is fine. And you have to look at it – don’t look at it ever in the winter because just the way it works – we won’t get as much production in the winter, and that’s fine. But in the summer, if you have 10 to 12 hours of clear – even 8 hours of clear, you’ll do great.
Kane:And so knowing that there’s not going to be as much production in the winter, do you guys optimize the fixed-angle panels specifically for the summer months?
Amy:Yes, it is always, always put up for summer out here.
Kane:西雅图,尤其是普吉特湾地区或者华盛顿州的地区,有什么分区要求房主应该注意的吗?
Amy:For standards in the city of Seattle and most of King County, there is no permitting as far as putting it on your roof. You have to get an electrical permit, obviously, but there’s no building permit. The only time we have to get building permits is if we’re doing a tracker, because with the poured foundation, or a nonstandard install like a patio cover or something to that effect. But no, there’s no zoning regulations. There’s no permitting issues.
And one interesting thing to consider is that Washington state two years ago passed a law saying that if you lived in an HOA that they could not ban you from solar panels. That is a law, and we can certainly give you the law of findings. So we just installed our very first system in an HOA. All it really involved was an extra meeting with the Homeowners Association to just talk to them and answer questions. But for years people have not – that’s been a big problem, so now you have that right.
Kane:太好了。即使有了这样的规定,你是否遇到了阻碍,或者他们是否很满意——只是有一些问题?
Amy:不,他们真正想知道的是,“它会是什么样的?”在这个特别的装置中,它是在一个三层的房子上。你几乎看不到屋顶。我是说,我在路上都没拍到它的照片。所以,是的,没什么大不了的。
Kane:太好了。所以很多阅读《西雅图宅地》的人会对他们所能做到的100%使用可再生能源感兴趣。那么对于一个小而能源相对保守的家庭来说,这很容易做到吗?你看到很多家庭都得到了80%或100%的电力需求,还是更多的补充?
Amy:It’s supplemental, but the way that the metering credits and the state rebates work, for now at least, that you only have to put in a system that provides about 40 to 45 percent of what your home uses on a daily basis to have no power bill. So even if you’re not being 100 percent solar or whatever you’re choosing, that doesn’t mean you’re not – you can still reduce your power bill significantly and have no power bill.
Kane:这是因为它的经济回报方面。
Amy:是的-是的-然后电表-这意味着你将降低你的电费因为电力公司将为你生产的所有东西记帐,不管你用不用,然后国家也会每年为你生产的所有东西报销一次。所以从长远来看,你不需要做100%的系统。百分之百的系统,你必须有一个大得惊人的房子,很多屋顶空间,从经济上来说,你可以这样做,但我们建议人们尽可能多地使用电网,因为他们会付钱给你。如果他们要给你钱,我说"拿去吧"
Kane:好的。因此,用净计量法——简单地说——如果你生产了你一天使用的120%,你得到的回报是120%还是20% ?
Amy:You will get credited for 120 percent. Basically, the way it works when you get your bill it will have two line items. It will say, “This billing cycle you used X kilowatt hours. This billing cycle, you produced X kilowatt hours. You owe us either the difference, or you have a credit on your bill.”
Kane:Okay – so not only are you not paying the $0.065 per kilowatt hour, but you’re getting the rebate on top of that?
Amy:Indeed – yeah.
Kane:太好了。好吧,很高兴知道这个。继续这个思路,你安装的住宅系统的平均规模是多少,你的目标是40%或50%的覆盖率吗?还有人想要更高的吗?
Amy:We – when we do our site surveys and do our bids, we like to give people three sizes of system: a minimum size, which to get the 30 percent tax credit you have to have one kilowatt, so we generally start in the one-range, we give you a midsize system, which is gonna be the breakeven, no power bill system, and then we give you a large system, which would be how many panels can we physically put on your structure. So there is a limit as far as size goes.
Kane:And does it seem like most people opt for the middle?
Amy:Most – some usually find something that works within their budget that gets pretty close to the middle, if at all possible, and then some choose to do smaller installs but then add to it, or – we have very few people that have wanted – that have just gone over for the sheer – because they can factor. A couple – and that’s great – you know. So they have no power bill and then some. But, you know, the state rebate does have a cap on it. It’s $5,000.00, which is a lot of money, but still – so there isn’t financially a huge purpose in putting a huge, huge, huge more-than-you-need system. For out here, the average – average is kind of hard – but average out here is about three to four kilowatts.
Kane:是覆盖全年的总使用量还是收支平衡?
Amy:为了收支平衡,为了没有电费账单。
Kane:Okay – and so earlier you were saying that the average cost per kilowatt is $6,000.00 or $7,000.00 right now?
Amy:现在根据你购买的产品不同,价格在5500美元到8000美元之间。
Kane:Okay – and the $5,500.00 would be the most affordable panels and stuff.
Amy:Yes – but they’re all U.S. made. We actually use the SolarWorld panels out of Beaverton.
Kane:What was the name again?
Amy:SolarWorld.
Kane:World – okay.
Amy:Mm-hmm – they’re out of Beaverton, and that kind of goes along with the sustainability aspect because we’d rather purchase local. You know, I mean, we’d never, ever use foreign panels, ever. So everything is at least made here, so our standard panel system is Enphase microinverters, which is one inverter per panel, and SolarWorld panels.
Kane:Okay – and so those panels that you’re installing, how many kilowatts does each panel – are you installing, you know, 1.65-kilowatt systems, or is it every half-kilowatt?
Amy:SolarWorld的每块电池板是240瓦,所以你需要4块电池板才能有1千瓦的电量。所以我们的千瓦系统最终会变成一个奇怪的百分比,因为如果你装上八个面板或者,你知道,随便什么。
Kane:0.96, I think… And is that still okay for that minimum one-kilowatt size?
Amy:Yeah, as long as it is at least one kilowatt, so we usually try to install five panels just –
Kane:1.2 or whatever.
Amy:— to be better – yeah.
Kane:太好了。好吧,如果你说的是每千瓦大约6000美元,那么每块面板可以分解到大约1500美元,在最小系统尺寸之后,是这样吗?
Amy:Kind of – I mean, you have the panels, and you have the inverter, but you also have the balances of systems, which is the racking and the wiring and the labor. So – kind of – yeah.
Kane:All right – rough calculation. Okay – so I guess a lot of the questions we had were focused on return on investment and cost efficiency. So let’s talk about the incentives and rebates first, since that’s what most of the calculations are kind of centered around. What are the current rebates and incentives, federal and state, and then what does the timeline right now – as of early 2012, what does the timeline look like for those phasing out?
Amy:The federal tax credit is a 30 percent tax credit, and it is a credit, not an income reduction. It’s 30 percent of the entire cost of the system. So whatever you would write a check for, you get 30 percent of that. It’s an easy form to fill out for your taxes. So that’s the only federal incentive we have right now. It is good through 2016, although I can’t imagine we wouldn’t renew it – but you never know. The state incentive is good through 2020, and there are three levels. The first level is $0.15 per kilowatt you get paid, and that is for standard panels –
Kane:And installation.
Amy:— and installation. The second is $0.36 per kilowatt, and that is if you use a Washington-made panel, but a non-Washington inverter. So for instance, say an i.Tech panel with an Enphase inverter. The third system is $0.54 per kilowatt, and that is for all made in Washington systems. We have two versions here. We have Silicon Energy in Marysville; they have a panel and inverter system. And then i.Tech which is in Bellingham; they have a panel and inverter system as well.
Kane:Okay – so then the natural follow-up question is how does the cost for the Washington-made modules and inverters compare to the other U.S.-made ones, and are they pretty comparable in terms of lifespan and output?
Amy:The panels are all the same, for the most part. The Silicon Energy is a little different, but as far as efficiency ratings and how they work and how they perform, they’re all the same. They’re very good panels. They’re well made. They have very good warranties on them. No one can say for sure the lifespan of a solar panel, but they’ve all been tested.
Kane:当然,只是估计是一样的。
Amy:是啊,它们都已经在实验室里测试了60年了。就是这样。保修期至少20年。
Kane:And the warranty, does that cover 75 percent output or something like that?
Amy:It’s power production, so they’re warrantied to work at at least 80 percent of their rated value for 20 years.
Kane:And how is that tested?
Amy:他们把它们放在环境室中。I don’t – haven’t seen the exact –
Kane:Yeah – and we gotta wait a few years to see anyone claiming on that, I guess.
Amy:是的,他们也要获得UL评级,这在美国是必须的,他们必须经受住中西部的冰雹,所以他们拿着冰球,把它们放在棒球射击器里然后向他们发射冰球,如果冰球破了,他们就不能通过。
Kane:Wow! Okay.
Amy:所以它们非常、非常、非常耐用。
Kane:Okay – so they can handle Seattle mist.
Amy:Yes, they’re good with the mist. You drop a tree on it, you’ll probably break it, but it is permanently affixed to your home, so generally your homeowners insurance would cover that anyways.
Kane:好的,好消息。
Amy:但就价格差异而言,一个标准的面板系统,就像我们说的,大约是每千瓦5500美元到6000美元。i.Tech和硅能源系统的成本差不多,所以我们用相同的数字;它们的价格在8000美元到7500美元每千瓦之间。
Kane:好的,所以你可能会多看20 - 30或40% ?
Amy:大约是30%大约是30%到35%
Kane:好吧,很明显,其中一些是由30%的联邦税收抵免覆盖的,但是什么时候才有意义——例如,多大的规模和系统,使用华盛顿制造的而不是美国制造的是有意义的?And is there a time factor in that?
Amy:The – you have roughly seven years – well, seven and a half years –
Kane:为了华盛顿的荣誉?
Amy:——为了华盛顿的荣誉。A Washington system takes roughly seven years to pay off, so if you are in the market for –
Kane:So 2012 is the year.
Amy:Yes – well, yeah, and it runs out in 2020 – well, I guess you have, yeah, seven and a half years from now. So if you’re going to do a Washington system, and you want the lower ROI, then you have to do it within the next – I’m gonna say 18 months to be a little – to beat the –
Kane:以获得最好的效益。
Amy:Yes. Then after that point, we really are gonna have to see what the legislature does, but between – in the next two to three years, unless Silicon Energy and i.Tech lower their prices, it will make no point to do it because you’re not gonna have that much time to recoup your loss. So if you’re doing a huge system, all the systems are really good. It’s a personal financial goal, really. If you’re considering it, what you wanna look at is, “Do I have one amount of money?”
Let’s say I can only spend $25,000.00. That’s all I – I got a loan for it; that’s what I have. We can get you more solar and more production if we do standard panel systems with microinverters than we can with a Washington system. So if you – if what you’re trying to do is just do something with the funds you have available, we would recommend that. If you’re really in it because let’s say you’re retiring in less than ten years and you wanna have that portion of your fixed income taken care of – the electrical side of it – then a Washington system is a great way to go, because by the time you’re retired you’ll have it paid – basically, it’ll pay itself off, and you’ll know certainly by then what your average power bill is gonna be, if you even have one.
So those are the two big differences. Most people it comes down to which panel do I like the looks of? Do I like the microinverter versus the monolithic inverter?
Kane:好的,所以这真的是围绕着你能负担得起的一开始你用的是哪种融资方式和你的目标?
Amy:Yes.
Kane:好的。我认为这对很多认真考虑这个问题的人很有帮助。在融资方面,我听说在过去的一两年有一些银行正在提供太阳能融资。现在的情况是怎样的?
Amy:There’s two banks – they’re actually credit unions that I know of that do specifically green loans. Their rates depend on your credit score. They’re generally in the 7 to 8-ish range, which isn’t horrible.
Kane:It’s comparable to a normal HELOC loan.
Amy:基本上-是的-但是因为你是在一个太阳系里,他们可能会更容易给你,你知道,如果你走进Chase或者类似的地方。
Kane:你知道那两家银行的名字吗?哦,好的,在西西雅图自然能源文献指南里找到了。
Amy:First Security Bank of Washington, which they are located – they have a branch in Lynwood, I believe, and thenGenerations Credit Union, and they are in – they’re down south like Des Moines or something to that effect.
Editor’s Note– there are two additional banks – Umpqua Bank and Puget Sound Cooperative Credit Union – and all 4 banks can be found in the resources at the top of the page.
Kane:好的,很好,我们的网站上也会有。很高兴知道这个。好的,我们已经讨论了生产信用,面板,以及预期回报和收支平衡,听起来国家制造的面板大约需要7到8年,依赖于回报激励,而你说其他美国制造的面板需要10到11年?
Amy:Yeah – and one thing if people are considering it seriously is to consider the fact that electric rates are on the rise, and those quoted figures are for today’s power rate. Right now, in western Washington, we pay basically between $0.094 and $0.098 per kilowatt, so just under $0.10 per kilowatt. What a lot of people don’t know is the reason we have cheap power is because of the Bonneville Act, and that was a federal law that was put into effect over 100 years ago. The 100 years was up last year.
They decided to not renew that, so every single power company – all of them – is going to have to get us, their clients, up to a retail rate, because that is not what we’re paying right now. So power rates have already gone up. It’s not by a lot. It’s by fractions of pennies, but between now and the next three years we have to be where kind of the average is for our area. The average – our closest neighbor that buys power from Bonneville is Portland. So Portland pays right now roughly about $0.18 per kilowatt, so almost double what we pay.
所以真正要考虑的一件事是,如果你想这样做,你可以尽早这样做,你现在就在你的账单前做,因为很多人说,“好吧,我的账单每隔一个月才100美元。”好吧,没关系,但那是今天。这也是一定要记住的。
Kane:Okay – and so among the solar community, are you expecting parts and things to go up in price as you see an increase in rates? Is that kind of an expected thing for manufacturers?
Amy:Yes, it’s come down a lot because after the last election everyone got on the green bandwagon and manufacturers assumed everyone was gonna do it, so they overproduced panels and other things like that. So we saw a decrease in price – significant decrease in price in the last two years. It’s starting to go up a tiny bit, and a lot of that has to do with the economy. As people have more money, they’re gonna charge us more for our goods.
Kane:Sure.
Amy:Oh, one other thing to point out – I forgot – is that right now if you buy a solar system, you do not pay Washington state sales tax on it, and that is going away in June or 2013, so you’ll save 10 percent right there if you do it before next summer.
Kane:Okay – well, that’s very good to know. Okay – so June 2013 – all right, so that’s about the year and a couple months’ mark. Okay – great. Well, I think that is all the big questions I had, and that definitely answers a lot of my own questions and some of the ones that readers had. So will you be available if you have some follow-up questions? I can email those over to you.
Amy:是的,我们有,我们的网站上有一个联系表格,所以如果你有其他问题,你可以填写这个表格,我们很高兴给你答复。Our website isWestSeattleNaturalEnergy.com,或者你也可以发邮件问我问题。The email is info@WestSeattleNaturalEnergy.com.
Kane:太好了。先说清楚,你们是在哪个区域安装的?
Amy:整个华盛顿西部。
Kane:好的,很好。好了,这里的面积很大。好吧,我想这就是我所知道的一切。接下来我们会回答一些后续问题。谢谢你,艾米,谢谢你花时间回答我所有的问题。我希望将来我们能在这个地区再做一次太阳能,热水,或者风能。
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